Goons have won Eve.
Period. Game over man.

So CCP, acknowledge they played well, given the game constructs that you have the provided.

Then blow the whole thing up, and overhaul the game mechanisms that play to their strength, namely the blob and out of game in-house tools.

CCP, you want to really build the sub base?

Make it incredibly unpleasant to operate organizations of more than 1000 chars (and I am talking non-game alliances, like CFC).
Spread wealth out equally across null sec. Move moon goo to asteroids, then randomize the location when it is depleted.
Make virtually instant power projection very very expensive, and risky (the further you jump, the more ships you jump, the higher a percent some end up in the wrong system, don't jump at all, or worse, blow up).

That is a few things right there that would cripple the null sec cartels, and encourage smaller groups to populate all of the game's systems.

But none of this will happen.
CCP's ties to the cartels are way too close for them to try breaking them up.

Eve has become something like the Southpark WoW episode, but in Eve's case, that slob player is in the conference room, or has multiple reps on the CSM.

So are we currently looking at a situation where goons now directly control or exert control on 10% of all accounts in the game?
By that I mean the CFC proper, all the renter's, plus god knows how many alts of CFC and renters?

Yeah, I have said it before.
Goon's saw the business model of Serenity, and are bringing it to TQ.

How many of those came from the SA forums (of which you have to pay a sub)?

What people are "hung up"?

It was a valid point to argue, nothing more (I actually like a lot of goon members).

If you take the time to reread the dialogue before processing a reaction, it might make more sense, even though I can understand your kneejerk response.

Does no one have a leaked copy of the participation stats for Fountain?

They say you always end up becoming the think you dispise the most.

This the main reason that something has to be changed regarding reinforcement timers and force projection. CFC, CFC lovers and CFC apologists will try to use an argument that goes something like this => "if you change the timers then we'll be able to stomp over everyone" or "that would hurt the little guys". This is not true.

If a coalition of 37,000 players want to kill a little guy, timers mean zip, there is nothing that the little guys can do about it.

However, if timers are changed it means the little guys can choose a time that's not chosen by 37,000 players, and don't have to show up at a time chosen by those 37,000 players to get wiped out by a massive supercap, capital and sub cap fleet that magically appeared in the system from the other side of the galaxy.

History has shown that the bigger your empire gets, the harder it is to defend yourself against "the little guy". The longer the routes are for your armies and navy. The more spread out your forces need to be to defend your massive territory. The longer it takes for intel to get past along.

For whatever reason CCP decided that these rules of massive empires didn't need to be in game and this is the result. 37,000 accounts, which is ludicrous, able to squash anyone in game because they get automatic messages from the server whenever anything they own is attacked, they get to choose when their territory is defended, they don't need to worry about the size of their territory and they can move the biggest ships in the game faster through bridging than the smallest fastest ships can move via gates.

WTF are they smoking in Iceland?

When I read about 35,557 members of an entity in EVE, I read 35,556 people not playing EVE properly.

You're supposed to work your way to the top and run off with the ISK and Goods.

Not doing this is clearly some 'Star trek' doctrine where money no longer exists and everybody is happy (except the guys handed red shirts, however we never seem to hear much from them after an away mission).

Come on, close something down. One man destroyed BOB. There's 35,556 people failing to reach their potential.

So you want to be immune from losing space in EvE with your 35000+ people because you have to work and sleep and spend time with family?

That's a **** poor excuse for keeping the timers. There were no timers years ago when EvE had no POS and alliances managed to hold together and keep space to themselves by actually fighting for it. I'm pretty sure they had to work and sleep and poop too.

Yeah they're probably some ex-WoW market research peoples or maybe Sony, EA yeah? They like to casualize and ruin good games.

More lies. I said I wanted to shoot a 100 million isk POCO without having to spend more on ammo than the stupid thing was worth and not have to wait 24 hours after it went into reinforced before coming back to get ganked by its owners...

Seems pretty reasonable to me. EvE, blowing shite up... that's what I pay for, I dont' give a crap if you're asleep or at work... not my problem (except it is with timers)

Except such a strategy would just have CFC doing the same thing, except they could reinforce 10 times as many. You may get one but you lose 9...

LMAO... I think I need to find a forum where people have basic comprehension skills... Having a discussion on this unmoderated forum is pointless.

WHERE DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT SOLO PLAY - ANSWER: NOWHERE

You made it up.

Oh you mean the POCO?... since when is every POCO in game owned by the *in a serious and proud tone* THE LARGEST AND MOST SUCCUSSFUL ALLIANCE IN GAME... lol

I think you have a ways to go before you own all space. It wasn't a goon poco.

Do you know how absolutely cowardly that sounds?

Come and attack us, while we sit in the middle of our bought off alliances surrounding us for protection. We need our massive numbers to cower behind.

neener neener neener

That's completely irrelevant to this thread. We all understand and agree that people working together is and should be more powerful than people not working together.

What is relevant is 35,000 players working together get their space winkies held by the server while they're off sleeping and the requirement for any smaller force (that's the entire server, regardless of whether they're solo or in an alliance) to turn up at a time conveniently chosen by those 35,000 players to get owned.

Its stupidity and has nothing to do with soloers. But nice try to derail and obfuscate the issue... didn't work.

So basically, Clowns?

I like that, Goon = Space Clown... :)

that's not an insult btw. I haven't met any horrible goons, few tried to kill me but otherwise they seemed pretty okay. The renting thing is unacceptable however. Something has to be done about that.

WIth a tag line like that, I would think that you'd get the idea, but I'll edit my post to clear it up for you.

Oh, roll-playing. Cute.

bullshit, you could drown a whale in that ********'s pool.

Frat houses are like that.

Ever notice the similarities with frats and goons?

They need an already established structure they literally pledge into (with $10).
They call this a "community" (vs going out and making friends like normal people)

They then cling to this group wherever they go, depending on the group mentality to reinforce themselves. Very clique-ish.

It's not a wonder they have so many numbers. Frats are also popular with those that want life on 'easy mode' You simply cannot deny the advantages.

The individual is significant as long as he's part of the group. The groups successes are his!
The worst behaviors of the group (secretly condoned by all) are publicly decried as "a few bad eggs".

But it's all good, right? You don't mind a few indiscretions do you? That girl shouldn't have got so drunk.

Besides, look how much they volunteer and help the community!
What with picking up trash on the weekends, holding socials, and filing bug reports.

Pop those polo-shirt collars proudly goons.

Now.. I didn't pass judgement and call you terrible.
I just pointed out that you're basically a video game frat.

You even have little chapters in every town (game).
And the identity issues
(why don't people outside the frat not like people in the frat? they must be jealous, that's it!)

I didn't expect it to be as accurate a comparison when I started commenting on the smell.
But it really is uncanny.

I mean, feel free to point out where I went wrong.

No, they have indentured servants (functionally slaves) instead. They should force all of their renters to join the "Chain Gang" alliance, or some such RP.

Basically, yes.

You can try to gloss over it if you don't want to honestly acknowledge the parallels that exist, but you pay to pledge into a group.

To be a part of an otherwise arbitrary organization that exists completely outside of the (or a) game. This group then uses it's outside resources to apply that advantage to both the group and by extension individual, where others 'go it alone' so to speak.

Some people make friends, or build groups. Yours become goons and the rest is waiting for them inside.

Your "community" is every checkbox of a fraternity.
You can point to TEST, RA, hell them and lots of smaller groups of people with outside game and/or RL ties, but none will fit the frat bill quite the way Something Awful does. And certainly not across all the many chapters and schools, er.. games.

I don't say it to be a bad thing. It's part of what makes you unique and successful.
You and your members should own being frat boys.

You gotta think of something better than a frat

Perhaps a secret society, or no no wait I got it,


a mystery religion

a cult

Look, I can appreciate if you don't choose to acknowledge how goons are basically in every way, shape and form a frat.

But don't call people names, that's against the forum rules.

You must be one of the select few "bad eggs" that the core goon group doesn't condone.
The exception to an otherwise sterling and stand-up group of guys.

you sound mad,
as if you don't appreciate what I've paralleled.

why wouldn't you want to be in a frat? you joined one.
you seemingly enjoy having made this decision, or at least the "community" it's afforded you.

yet you reject the concept it's built on?

I just don't understand, maybe you'll be able to stop being so witty and post some content.

A true paradox (and NOT a frat)

Whats the problem?

And who says it is?

BTW: "CFC" means "Clusterfuck coalition". I had to google it. According to EVE wiki and this thread they create blobs with 35,557 players. An alliance called "Raiden" belongs to the "Formerly Well Known Enemies Who Managed To Remove Themselves Without Being Blobbed" (according to wiki again). Lol. If I jump through a gate and on the other side are 35,557 players blobbing around this gate I would press the self destruct button immediately as well.

yep more like 150 actual interesting players and 35k sheep.

Ahh you're one of the sheep then. It's ok to be one of the masses mate we all need to people to clean our floors and toilets and serve us hamburgers.

Don't feel like you are contributing because you are and the 1% really do appreciate clean toilets.

Why would I care? You're the one who posted when I mentioned sheep.

I'm a strong independent space pilot that don't need no mittani.

Goons are bad people though...your leader is the reason we cant tell people to kill themselves anymore.

No we have to say:
Pod yourself.
Biomass.
Kill yourself.... in game.

I have recently returned from CFC space. While I was there, I communicated with all the Ishtar, Navy Vexor and Tengu pilots plexing, all they kept saying in local was:

01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110010 01110101 01110000 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100011 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100001 01110010 00100000 01100001 01100011 01110100 01101001 01110110 01101001 01110100 01101001 01100101 01110011 00101110 00100000 01001100 01100101 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110111 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100110 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100001 01110010 01101101 01110011 00101110

And even if goon propagandists don't respond, I will keep posting the truth about your organization.